Below is a response by Ciaran to a comment in his blog
This is classic annihilationist thinking dressed up in scientific prose. There is identity, there is a sense of self - but it's not static. It writhes and moves, twists, grows, feeds.
In the sense that the identity exists as a thing in the mind.
I wouldn't say the sense of self is a percept, because it's not inert. But it is a real illusion, and it does seem to act with a certain kind of independent agency.
The key thing that Murphy is missing here is that the idea that the sense of self has no percept just delves fruitlessly into the depths of the mind.
It's not that it has no percept. It has no object. There is nothing that it actually refers to.
But.... remember. It's not inert. And it CLAIMS ownership over basically everything it can. Claiming ownership over a body? Yup. A mind? Yup. A car? Yup.
A nation? Yup - if it can. God? My God? Yup. It ain't squeamish, and it ain't shy.
This fiction is alive.
I wonder if Ciaran is getting caught in that phrase above
"I wouldn't say the sense of self is a percept, because it's not inert. But it is a real illusion, and it does seem to act with a certain kind of independent agency."
To even ascribe a 'certain kind of independent agency', means that it's not being seen clearly.
The sense of self is a subtle feedback phenomena.
Mistaking concepts for reality gives a certain kind of feedback.
That feedback then modifies the sense of self, which undergoes countless further mutations as illusion upon illusion weaves a more intricate web.
To say that 'this fiction is alive' is correct, but only in the sense that I've described above.
We are a living feedback-oriented organism - if the feedback is corrupted with bad data, then that affects the living organism.
This bad data then creates a distorting lense with which new data is filtered, thus creating more bad data.
Ciaran's urge for the dramatic may be rooted in his penchant for movies and video games - it would make a good game or movie subtitle.
But to say "this fiction is alive" is no different from saying humans are alive - ummm yeah well, that's kinda obvious Ciaran!
This is classic annihilationist thinking dressed up in scientific prose. There is identity, there is a sense of self - but it's not static. It writhes and moves, twists, grows, feeds.
In the sense that the identity exists as a thing in the mind.
I wouldn't say the sense of self is a percept, because it's not inert. But it is a real illusion, and it does seem to act with a certain kind of independent agency.
The key thing that Murphy is missing here is that the idea that the sense of self has no percept just delves fruitlessly into the depths of the mind.
It's not that it has no percept. It has no object. There is nothing that it actually refers to.
But.... remember. It's not inert. And it CLAIMS ownership over basically everything it can. Claiming ownership over a body? Yup. A mind? Yup. A car? Yup.
A nation? Yup - if it can. God? My God? Yup. It ain't squeamish, and it ain't shy.
This fiction is alive.
I wonder if Ciaran is getting caught in that phrase above
"I wouldn't say the sense of self is a percept, because it's not inert. But it is a real illusion, and it does seem to act with a certain kind of independent agency."
To even ascribe a 'certain kind of independent agency', means that it's not being seen clearly.
The sense of self is a subtle feedback phenomena.
Mistaking concepts for reality gives a certain kind of feedback.
That feedback then modifies the sense of self, which undergoes countless further mutations as illusion upon illusion weaves a more intricate web.
To say that 'this fiction is alive' is correct, but only in the sense that I've described above.
We are a living feedback-oriented organism - if the feedback is corrupted with bad data, then that affects the living organism.
This bad data then creates a distorting lense with which new data is filtered, thus creating more bad data.
Ciaran's urge for the dramatic may be rooted in his penchant for movies and video games - it would make a good game or movie subtitle.
But to say "this fiction is alive" is no different from saying humans are alive - ummm yeah well, that's kinda obvious Ciaran!
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