Sam takes a look

• Sally Adams what are u looking 4 Sam McElrone?
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• Sam McElrone I want the truth.
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• Sally Adams what truth Sam?
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• Sam McElrone THE truth
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• Sally Adams which subject?
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• Niyama Pandya I like your questions, Sally.
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• Sam McElrone The space the sages spoke of
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• Sally Adams is there awareness of thoughts there Sam?
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• Niyama Pandya Lol....which sages? and what did they say?
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• Sally Adams or just thoughts about thoughts?
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• Sam McElrone I don't know, you tell me. What are you pointing at?
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• Niyama Pandya You move much quicker than I do Sally. I can appreciate that. But some people need more time.
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• Sally Adams i don't have so much free time at the moment - hence the getiing to the point quickly
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• Sally Adams only you can tell me where you're at Sam McElrone
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• Niyama Pandya Yes...I understand. I actually like it.
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• Sam McElrone Do you meditate?
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• Sam McElrone I'm in Tennessee, USA
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• Sally Adams used to - no need now
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• Sally Adams living is meditation here now
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• Sam McElrone So you are enlightened?
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• Sally Adams i'm not confused - that's enough for now
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• Sally Adams end the confusion and then see if the "are you enlightened" questions are meaningful3 hours ago · Like
• Sam McElrone So you do not suffer?
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• Sally Adams occasionally - but quite rare
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• Sally Adams and only for seconds3 hours ago · Like
• Sam McElrone How do I end the confusion?
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• Sally Adams see if there is awareness of thoughts or just thoughts about thoughts
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• Sam McElrone I could be percieved either way couldn't it?
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• Sam McElrone Which one is it?
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• Sally Adams are both happening?
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• Sam McElrone I'll guess and say yes?
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• Sally Adams what is a guess Sam - this is a serious question - what does it mean to guess?
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• Sam McElrone Well you know the answer and I don't. So I'm guessing and you will tell me if I am right.
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• Sally Adams then if i give u the answer, it's just an image in your memory - it doesn't have more reality than that
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• Sam McElrone Sally are you implying everything is thought?
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• Sam McElrone Or that everything is awareness?
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• Sally Adams no - but you're jumping the gun - you are just asking for information - that will not end your confusion!
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• Sam McElrone What the BOTTOM LINE?
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• Sally Adams there is no bottom line in terms of information - you have to see the truth clearly for yourself - you can't just repeat what another tells you
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• Sally Adams and you'll only discover if you actually investigate for yourself, and not rely on second-hand knowledge
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• Sam McElrone I agree with you on that. How do I know if you are really awakened or delusional?
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• Sally Adams test everything that i say - don't accept anything
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• Sam McElrone What do I do?
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• Sally Adams investigate thought to see clearly what it is
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• Sam McElrone How do I investigate thought?
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• Sally Adams start with language - the word 'window' - it's a word, but it also point to an actual thing, right?
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• Sally Adams can u see a window where u are?
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• Sam McElrone I don't have a window, no.
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• Sam McElrone I'm with you
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• Sally Adams so there's the word, and there's also the thing that the word points to
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• Sam McElrone I think it could be seen that way... or it could be perceived that they are the inseperable.
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• Sally Adams as a baby, before you discovered language, you could still play with things, even though u had no words for them - isn't that true?
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• Sally Adams if i show u something today that u don't have a word for - you would still see it
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• Sam McElrone Yes, that is true.
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• Sally Adams so the aren't inseperable - can u see that?
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• Sally Adams ‎*they
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• Sam McElrone Yes. Is it possible that it could be perceived as such though?
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• Sally Adams tell me why you have any doubt
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• Sam McElrone In general or about what?
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• Sally Adams ‎" Is it possible that it could be perceived as such though?"
  
  what dos this mean?
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• Sally Adams ‎*does
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• Sam McElrone Exactly what is says
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• Sam McElrone I just want to be thorough
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• Sally Adams so i was asking - why do you have any doubt - why do you think you ight not be able to perceive as such?
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• Sam McElrone You don't have to answer, I don't think it's a bad question though.
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• Sally Adams look above
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• Sam McElrone I'm wondering if your are really saying that this is the way things are.
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• Sally Adams be really simple Sam - just keep it simple for now - don't look for the big prize - it's just a distraction at the moment
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• Sam McElrone Okay. Gone on. The object is not the word, right?
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• Sam McElrone I mean go on lol
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• Sally Adams so do you see this clearly - you are sitting on something (i guess a chair) but it doen't matter what it's called - what the word is - it exists independent ofthe word
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• Sam McElrone Yes, I see this clearly
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• Sally Adams so moving on from static things to moving living things - you can clearly see that they are independent of the words that describe them
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• Sam McElrone Yes
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• Sally Adams ok - so lets move on
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• Sally Adams do you dislike anyone?
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• Sam McElrone At times. No enemies really.
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• Sally Adams do you feel justified in your dislike of them?
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• Sam McElrone Some times. Some times I can see through it.
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• Sally Adams is there anything that you feel strongly about?
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• Sam McElrone I feel stongly about the search for truth and music.
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• Sam McElrone Or do you mean in a negative way?
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• Sally Adams i was wondering about a strong negative
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• Sam McElrone Things people say sometimes. How I feel sometimes. I wish I had more self control. I want to be free from suffering.
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• Sally Adams can u give a specific example?
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• Sam McElrone Injustice in the world.
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• Sally Adams give an example
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• Sam McElrone Police brutality? does that work?
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• Sally Adams r u saying that all your suffering is related to injustice?
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• Sam McElrone No, I'm not. Are you asking what all my suffering is related to?
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• Sally Adams i want to get a handle on 1 specific suffering and see what's going on
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• Sam McElrone Okay. So what are you saying?
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• Sally Adams why do you think u suffer?
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• Sam McElrone Because my programming makes it so.
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• Sally Adams so why don't you change your programming?
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• Sam McElrone I think it's more trancending it... not so much changing it.
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• Sally Adams so why don't yu transcend it?
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• Sam McElrone I am trying to through meditation.
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• Sally Adams how is that gonna work?
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• Sam McElrone Programming is of the mind, and meditation take you beyond the mind.
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• Sally Adams so what do you do when u meditate?
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• Sam McElrone I haven't yet entered into a meditative state. Right now I am doing various yoga and breathing exercises to prepare the groundwork.
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• Sally Adams do you want a shortcut?
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• Sam McElrone I would love a shortcut
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• Sally Adams back to the chair and the word 'chair'
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• Sally Adams how about you and the word 'you'?
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• Sam McElrone Ahight
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• Sally Adams self and the word 'self'
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• Sam McElrone yes
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• Sally Adams what can you tell me about the self?
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• Sam McElrone I think what you're saying may have just clicked. When you separate the words from the experience you enter to a place beyond mind.
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• Sam McElrone Because the words are the mind.
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• Sally Adams yes Sam McElrone
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• Sam McElrone I'm not in a meditative state though, even when I percieve that.
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• Sally Adams how do you know?
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• Sam McElrone because nothing changed
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• Sally Adams didn't you just say that you can now see reality seperate from the word/mind?
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• Sam McElrone What about the third eye?
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• Sally Adams you have read a lot of stuff - you may need to discard nearly all of it!
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• Sam McElrone So there is no such thing?
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• Sally Adams if you first look at all the problems you have, and see that they're just imagined - it releases a great deal of energy
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• Sam McElrone I'll work on it. Was this the door to your own liberation?
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• Sally Adams you have to start where you are - clean up all the shit conclusios you have
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• Sally Adams yes - you can also look at all the ideas you have of yourself, and see that they are also just mindstuff
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• Sam McElrone Basically you're saying not to cling to the mindstuff.
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• Sam McElrone just let it all drop at once
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• Sally Adams it's not about clinging - it's about seeing that the word is not the thing, and often without the words and concepts, there's actually nothing there
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• Sally Adams just look for a self for example
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• Sam McElrone For the sake of practicality you have to see a direct relation from the thought to the thing. They have a meeting point. Otherwise you and I couldn't even communicate.
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• Sally Adams of course - we're both using a common language
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• Sally Adams but you may start talking about a self - and i would seriously ask you to tell me what that is, coz i can't find one
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• Sam McElrone Would it make a difference...make you suffer...if the thought WAS the thing?
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• Sam McElrone By saying there is no self, you are clinging to one extreme
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• Sally Adams no - i'm looking right now as we speak and i don't find one - do you?
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• Sam McElrone If the thought is the thing then yes. In one sense the thought is the thing. What makes you so sure the thought is not the thing?
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• Sam McElrone It is in a sense
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• Sam McElrone If we use the mind we can find a self
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• Sally Adams concepts have a reality - but only as concepts
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• Sally Adams for instance - a football club is really a concept
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• Sally Adams if people don't hold the concept of football club, where is the reality of the footbll club?
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• Sally Adams describe that self that you say the mind finds
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• Sam McElrone If you were to say the everthing is the self.
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• Sam McElrone Is the same as if I say there is no self
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• Sam McElrone Are you prejudiced one way?
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• Sally Adams well, is a chair the self?
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• Sam McElrone If you consider everything the self, the chair is part of everything
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• Sally Adams but that's just an idea - you can havethe idea of a pink unicorn dancing in your room, but is it true?
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• Sam McElrone No, it is not. No self is just an idea.
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• Sally Adams the idea of no-sef is an idea - but i was asking if you could find one as an actuality
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• Sam McElrone Find a self?
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• Sam McElrone No more or less than No self
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• Sally Adams so what's the reality?
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• Sam McElrone How are you defining self?
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• Sally Adams i don't define one - i don't have a reference point - there's nothing to describe
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• Sam McElrone I dont feel strong either way. The reality of no self would be an absence of self. What self is there an absence of?
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• Sally Adams it's like you telling me you have an imaginary friend and then asking ME to describe them!
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• Sam McElrone So the self that is absent is absent?
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• Sally Adams it never existed in the first place
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• Sam McElrone And thats why we're already enlightened?
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• Sally Adams that's why some people put it that way
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• Sally Adams I don't as it's misleading
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• Sally Adams there are numerous other conclusions and beliefs that cloud people's perceptions - they also need to be cleared up if true clarity is to be a reality
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• Sam McElrone But it did exist. As a concept. So did No-self
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• Sam McElrone Ego exists right? isn't ego the self?
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• Sam McElrone What if we call Samahdi the self?
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• Sally Adams the concept of te earth being flat existed and still exists - but does it represent reality?
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• Sam McElrone Does the concept of it being round? Does the concept of No self?
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• Sally Adams the concepts are just that - you can create any concept - are they useful?
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• Sam McElrone Yes. If used well.
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• Sally Adams the key point is the not being confused between a concept and the reality (or unreality) that it points to
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• Sam McElrone If I call my Tv a Tv does it change anything? Even if I srongly identify with it?
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• Sam McElrone Lol I think I just proved your point.
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• Sally Adams ‎;-)
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• Sam McElrone I don't think seeing this really changes anything.
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• Sally Adams well, firstly you have to drop all your secondhand knowlede about what awakening is - it only gets in the way
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• Sam McElrone I think what you are saying is just a method of self deception. You shouldn't need any of these concepts to live from your Buddha nature.
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• Sally Adams do you see the danger of secondhand knowledge yet?
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• Sam McElrone My second hand and first hand sort of ooze together. I may use secondhand as a basis. Even the definitations for words can be secondhand knowledge.
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• Sam McElrone It is impossible to speak out with no secondhand knowledge if you have not arrived at the space.
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• Sally Adams unless there's real clarity and awareness of the usage of secondhand knowledge (SN for short) then that's where illusion gets created
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• Sam McElrone I percieve SN as clearly as firsthand
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• Sally Adams for instance - you don't know what Buddha nature is, but you have an idea of what it is and what it means to be living from that
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• Sam McElrone But I know it is different from the state I am in.
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• Sally Adams what state are you in?
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• Sally Adams and you've been told that it's blah blah blah - but you don't actually know - so you're just projecting what Buddha nature is
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• Sam McElrone Is buddha nature not different than egoic conciousness, or unconciousness
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• Sally Adams i don't want to answer any questions like this, as it just creates a new image and SK (not SN haha) that only blocks you from making your own discoveries
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• Sally Adams quality of life is something that has to be lived - it can't be approached through concepts
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• Sam McElrone Okay I get the moral of the story... Throw away secondhand knowledge and see for yourself ( or no - self as you would put it.. lol) I gotta go though my ma is up and needs the computer. I have learned tonight.
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• Sam McElrone Have a good night Sally Adams
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• Sally Adams ok give me a shout if you wanna look further
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• Sally Adams morning here already :-)
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• Sam McElrone Alright will do. Haha. yea 3:30 am here. see ya
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• Sally Adams ciao
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